Why Federer beat Nadal in the Madrid final

federer

hi can you gave me your basic trianing ?

hi can yuo gave a vidio of your basic stroke because i like your forehand and back hand.

i think you have done a very good job on analysing those matches...
i love to watch your analysis of players' strategy
i also love playing tennis..usually play it with friends...
but have a problem lately, which is that my backhand is not stable
some days, it is good...but some days, i totally lose the pace...

As at today, your predictions are bang on track!

I cannot help wondering what a bitter irony it could be if someone else puts Roger out this year!!!!!!

Hi Will very nice breakdown of the match. I did not notice your observation while watching live.
I do However believe that the French Open will present different challenges for Federer. One being his mental strength at Grand Slam events vs Nadal. As seen in the last two Grand Slams Federer seems to be coming short in the mental department. If he meets Nadal in the French Open final will he overcome this glaring weakness? How will he react if he loses the first set? It remains to be seen but I doubt it.
Also lets not forget Nadal is always tinkering with his game, thus what was effective in Madrid may not be as effective at Roland Garros. Just my two cents.

Thanks for putting together the best tennis site on the planet

Didn't hurt that Djokovic tired Nadal out in the Nadal's previous match.

I'm watching the match again right now. Two other key points come to mind. One is that even outside of return of serve, Federer would around his backhand much more frequently than I've seen him in the past, particularly on his response to Nadal's serice return, most of these he took with the fh instead of his usual bh and really took control early on. Another key, which I don't understand, was that Fed's 2nd serve was kicking up very high, and Nadal couldn't return it well. Will that happen at all at Roland Garros?

Nice site Will, and excellent comment.
FWIW, I think Nadal can be beaten (and probably will) in Paris. Djokovic in Madrid and Rome showed he has a plan and can execute it, although 5 sets can be a problem for him. Today Nadal played Daniel, a Brazilian veteran around n. 100 who broke him 2 or three times, and put enormous pressure on him. Ok he is a clay specialist, was constantly applying sick ball rotation and this is not the game Fed and Nole can play, but today it was clear that Nadal is not 100% and is suffering even against average opponents. If Roger can play as you pointed out he did in Madrid (more controlled aggression but not overdoing his forehand, for example) he may beat Rafa. But then there is Djokovic...
The only point where I disagree is the slice backhand: yes on clay it is not that effective against Nadal but in Wimbledon it is VERY effective because of the lower bounce. So, he should not stop using it, just set it aside for the grass season.

My feeling is that if Fed will find it more difficult to get past Djokovic this time. if he does, then he will take the final from nadal.

Good analysis.

I felt Nadal did not move as well as he usually does. Federer played more consistently and less aggressively (than he normally would). But he certainly had a strategy this time to play against Nadal (and not just the attitude : Ill go there and figure it out).

In general i feel there are quite a few similarities in their games. Both are aggressive baseliners (even though federer has more variety). Both create angles with their backhands, and hit winners with their forehand. The difference is federer unleashes his weapons earlier in the rally (after 2 -4 rallies) while nadal would like do it after 10 rallies (which means Nadal is looking for rhythm before being explosive). Federer serves better while nadal defends better.

Usually nadal gets his way by extending the rallies which favors him which forces the nadal style of play. If federer played a game which shortens rally then it is in federer's favor.

Federer is beginning to understand how to do that. Serve Big and use that to his advantage.

I also feel fed will winthe French open using strategy , but Nadal is the better player on clay overall.

I think the same as George. It's important to rembember that Nadal way of playing totally depends on his physical condition, not only to return impossible balls but also to be in the best position during rallies, placing long balls. He played a very long and intense match in semifinals with a knee injury.
More over Madrid conditions in altitude and surface (bigger and fastest bounces), showed Nadal weakness in this term. Anybody who regulary watches Nadal matches could realize that he was totally out of the game.
I think this aspect was the most important in Federer victory. I didn't see any important improvement in Federer's play. He kept on doing unforcing errors in main points during the match, and Nadal or Djokovic would have beaten him easily playing at same level that they made on Saturday's Semifinal
Despite my spanish-english, I am not addicted to Nadal, only a good tennis fan :)

Fuzzy you made good analysis. Let us put down fan clubs here and talk the reality. Roger has been bitten a lot in the caly by Raf. This is the same as how Roger bit Raf in the grass. The time has come when Mascular will test the style. Roger has style while Raf rely mostly on extra energy or I can say too much edurance on the court.

Now that Roger has discovered different styles and tactics of which he can mix to challeng Raf, let us wait the big match. The problem you did not mention the new young stars. Nole, Tsonga, Simon and Murray. they may be obstacles to these two champions without forgetting Vedasco and Del porto.

Though your thoughts are a nice piece of tennis analysis, i think you are reading too much into it.

I think Nadal did not want to play a marathon match with an injury (right leg i think) and thus making RGarros an uncertainty.

Nadal also expressed disdain at the Madrid Masters being right before RG (he mentioned altitude and surface differences) and said in an interview he really doesn't care for the Madrid Masters.

And after 4h7m of play the day before, physical elements were also in play. (remember after the verdasco semi at AO he did get a day off - here was not the case).

Don't get me wrong, Federer had a great day and beat Nadal, but to answer your question at the end of the post... RG is a whole different kind of beast than Madrid; Nadal in my opinion is still the favourite and Djokovic is still his biggest threat.

Anyway, love your site! But if you could do an Ivanisevic serve analysis, I would spam my friends with your site adress :))))

I think the fact that Nadal had to play for 5 hours the day befor while Feder had an easy time with Del Potro. The real final was Nadals semi final.

Excellent analysis. Really enjoy watching it.

I hope Federer can take the title this time.

Nadal has enough French Open trophies already :-)

I wish I was able to watch both the Djokovic and Federer match in full. One thing I am curious about is how Federer decided to make these changes.

Thoughts?

sorry guys - fell

Great stuff, I feel in that camp of slice (backhand from Fed) but Nadal is anything but typical. Nice to see some adjustments from Federer and crack the French. Go Roger!

Who cares who wins...actually the tennis fans wins because it's gonna be a great '09 Roland Garros and Wimbledon we are treated for some great competitive tennis the way it should be.
I'm biased for Nadal I want him to win any matches but I try to emulate Federer's game and style. But it all goes down to making tennis more exciting because the competition is all close it's anyone's game now whoever can step up not like 2-4 years ago where it's ALL Federer winning everything and so boring(except French) now it's everyone has a chance. I don't know about the womens side though but they all look pretty.

Excellent work Will. Spot on. I was so sick of watching Fed using slice against Nadal. Fed would get pulled off court on his backhand side and then use that wimpy slice that would float back to the center of the court. Nadal would be waiting to just absolutely rip it to the other corner. When ever Nadal has even a second to set up his shot he absolutely rips it with loads of top spin and side spin. Nadal is much more defensive when he's hitting shots on the run.
Nadal serves on Fed's backhand every single time. This time Fed stepped out wide and hit a few inside in forehands knowing that Nadal is likely to always serve to his backhand.
I think the key to Fed winning against nadal is to not try to play Nadal's game of keeping the point going. He would just try to keep the point going with his bh slice. He needs to do what he used to do. Fed has been so good because unlike agassi who was the poster child for high % tennis, Fed would go for low % shots and MAKE them. That would really take his opponents by surprise. Fed used to make excellent use of inside in forehands which have to be winners or close because it leaves the whole court open. I also enjoyed watching Fed hit inside out bh's which are usually rare for one handers to hit. In this match you saw Fed go for inside in forehands three times in a row and that really took nadal by surprise. Fed also needs to do his best to wrong foot nadal as much as possible. Players like Nadal aggressively move back to recovery positions and hitting behind them is always a good strategy.
Fed needs to go all out instead of trying to hang in there. He tried hanging in there and lost the first 2 sets at wimbledon. Then he really stepped it up but then got tight again. Fed needs to play aggressively through out not just when he is down and there is no other hope.

Great analysis. Federer has done exactly what you describe(running around on service returns etc..) in other matches against Nadal and for some reason, stopped doing it even when it worked. This was the first match where I saw him doing that for the entirety of the match.

Helps to get first serves in.

And it's glad to see Roger back in good form. He was missing shots in previous matches he had no trouble making in the past.

Maybe his mono took more out of him than he thought.

Or hitting the "old age" of tennis players? Or getting married and becoming a dad?

No matter - I'm still all for Federer.

Hi Will, interesting analysis. Although Nadal didn't win a large percentage of his second serves, he was only broken once per set. What was key was Roger holding his own serve. You see players like Verdasco or Djokovic that manage to get a break (or several), and then Nadal comes storming back. Verdasco had a 4-0 lead only to lose 7-5. If Federer can hold his serve on clay, it places tremendous pressure on Nadal to hold his own. Interesting to see Fed chose to receive serve right off the bat, something he rarely does. He got a bit lucky. Nadal deferred the coin toss to Federer, who picked heads and got it right, so he could elect to serve. If Nadal wins, he probably receives first, and then Federer would have to hold right away (he might have done it anyway).

Also, you finished at 12 am, not 12 pm. 12 pm is noon. (Or maybe you did finish at noon, hmmm)

Your site has been really good since I came across it sometime last year. Started receiving the Newsletters maybe in October. The Pro Stroke Library is unique. I
put a link on my website to yours, even though it provides some secrets to opposing players. How long can this be free ? Your lesson instructions point out some important things others may not point out.
I do think Nadal will step up his game for the French Open, more than what he showed in Madrid. I thought Federer was on the downslide until Madrid. He did say that he rested for awhile before practicing for this tournament and even was considering taking a whole year off, I think I heard. I thought he might be like Borg who gave up after losing to McEnroe a few times and McEnroe who went downhill after he became a father. Roger will become a father soon.

I also liked very much the rate of backhands from Federer that surpass the net. In the past year he was losing several backhands against the net.

Oops, posted this in the wrong place first.

Will -

Great analysis! My wife, bless her, is a rabid Nadal fan and her take is that Rafa let Roger win (feeling sorry for him, I guess). That’s bull, of course - Nadal is too much of a competitor and has too much respect for Federer to let up.

Maybe I’m imagining it, but it seems that when Nadal plays Federer in a major he tweaks his strategy just enough to throw Roger off - in other words, he gives Roger a different look, something new to think about, and Federer has trouble adjusting. As if he’s prepared for one thing, and then gets something else.

Great site, by the way. I’ve changed my one-handed backhand to a two-hander by following your videos. Now I’m working on improving my serve.

Thanks, and keep up the good work!

Reply

Hey Gary. Thanks for your thoughts. Good suggestion on the graphics. To be honest, I finished filming last night at about 12 pm and had had about enough. Heh. Next time I'll film at a more reasonable hour.

Very illuminating discussion,Will. Loved it. :)

"-Let me open this discussion by a sound tennis maxim: Never give your opponent a chance to make a shot he likes. -"
Bill Tilden, from the 1925 tennis classic, Match Play and the Spin of the Ball

In other words, take them out of their comfort zone.

To summarize then what worked for Fed. here, and maybe again at Roland Garros-

1. Effective use of drop shot
2. All backhand returns are flat or topspin, esp. down the line to Nadal's backhand
3. Fake (and Mix in) the serve & volley to disrupt normal topspin swing line of Nadal
4. Aggressive second serve placement and power

Just one stylistic suggestion for the video. You might want to use some word graphics at bottom of video screen to aid the viewer as he listens to the each topic of your analysis. For example, when you discuss "Why did Federer win this match?",
a graphic such as "Second Serve Aggression" when talking about that, then "Fake Serve & Volley" when discussing that, and "Effective Backhand Service Return", when talking on that. Maybe just a touch easier to follow over a 10 minute video with basically audio analysis only. Or maybe splice in some inserts from the actual match itself. Just an idea.

Anyway, keep up the great work!

Hahah alright then, let's hope he pwns nadal @ the roland gaross then.

Hey Reibin. You're right -- I think we'll see more of that drop shot. It can be an effective shot vs. Nadal.

Had to go with "pwn." I'm a child of the interwebs =)

Hey there Will,

Nice job on your analasys regarding the Madrid final Federer vs Nadal.
So how do you beat Nadal? I think I found the answer last year when I saw the
Australian Open 2008 Semifinal between Nadal and Tsonga. Again, we are back at the discussion of taking Rafa out of his "comfort zone". During that match I think Tsonga hit 15+ drop shots and pretty much all of them went in, he was also very aggressive at the net and hit alot of volleying whenever he got the chance.

Yesterday I watched highlights of Roland Gaross 2008 final and you can clearly see that Federer is trying to beat Nadal at the type of game that he knows best. There was alot of beautiful shot making by Federer those few times that he actually got to hit a winner on Rafa. But that was it, for the rest of the time he was desperately trying to keep up with Nadals game, and we all know how that ended.

In the Madrid final, Federer was playing it smart. You could see glimpses of this strategy vs Del Potro in the recent match up to the final and it seemed to work quite well on him.

I also believe that Federer has a chance of winning the Roland Gaross if he keeps up the way he is playing now, time will tell. It is going to be damn interesting..

And by the way, you might wanna say "own" and not "pwn" in a video that is hopefully not only going to be viewed by youngsters... :D

We are on the same page I completely agree with the fake serve and volley theory

So who will win today, I wonder...