Kick Serve Progressions – Step 2 – Follow Through

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The second step of the kick serve progressions is to add the follow through to the swing and the pronation that we worked on in the previous step. One of the keys when adding the follow through is to practice the motion very slowly. Just like we did in the previous video. I’m not hitting the tennis ball hard – I’m actually hitting it very softly – and I’m following through in a nice, easy motion.

The mechanics of the kick serve follow through are the same as those for the flat serve follow through. I continue to pronate and I point the tennis racket down at the court. The relationship between my racket, hitting arm and body look like an upside-down “U” once I have the racket pointing at the court.

That said, there are some differences between the follow through on a kick serve and the follow through on a flat serve. There is a gap to the side of my body created by my tennis racket and hitting arm. Because I was swinging up and across the ball earlier in the motion, my follow through is going to be more to my side, creating this gap.

  • Anonymous

    eastern

  • Jose Miguel

    GREAT STUFF!!! THANKS A LOT!! I’VE BEEN LOOKING IN THE INTERNET FOR QUALITY TENNIS LESSONS VIDEOS QUITE LONG BEFORE GETTING TO THIS!!!

  • Anonymous

    do you have any idea why i can’t see these videos ?

  • Nashita

    Hey will,this is a great site..is it necessary to have WW forehand i play a traditional forehand but it lacks power, will WW forehand give more power compared to traditional forehand?I play intermediate level is WW forehand crucial can i play traditional forehand and still improve my game level..i love this site it has helped me alot

  • patrick

    Will – do you change your grip on the WW stroke?

  • Victor Liendo

    Well, i have just suscribed to this site and i have not watched a lot of videos yet, but i think this is a very serious tennis site. The coach takes you step by step, which is very convenient for beginners, or intermediate players who want to take their game to a higher level …

  • http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/ Will Hamilton

    Nope, stays the same!

  • Calvin

    Do you force arm pronation when hitting the WW forehand?

    To clarify, pretend I am holding the racquet straight in front of me, without swinging. To get a WW motion, I would physically pronate my arm.

    For the WW in the forehand, do I need to physically pronate, or is the momentum of the swing enough to get the WW motion?

  • Tiago

    My only doubt is:
    Do you realy swing up the raquet face? if you do it, shouldn’t the sideview show a very vertical line

  • Deanosb1999

    it’s so helpful and i’m beating the top guys because of my kick serve

  • Deanosb1999

    will-how do you make sure you get your winners in

  • Wengie

    Will, do I really have to change my grip to a “semi-western” one to do a Windshiels Wiper Forehand? Or can I do it with an Eastern Forehand?

  • http://twitter.com/jcolicchio_che Juan Colicchio

    you brake the string so much quicker with this hit, ive never hit a drive shot, ive always hit like this since i first picked up my raquet …. do to the fact that my grip is western, so it comes naturally to hit like this to me :)

  • Federer

    You can hit a windshield wiper forehand using the Eastern grip — Federer does it. However, he’s also using a straight arm forehand motion… if your elbow is too tucked in, you won’t have the physical possibility to perform the correct motion. It’s that you need to perform a forearm pronation after impact and your grip compels you to start it so late that you naturally end-up over your shoulder.

    How so? Well, an Eastern grip strikes the ball with your palm… it’s the same as presenting your palm to hit the ball as the racket face is angles with it, mostly. A semi-western grip is struck a notch more closed and, now, your knuckles are facing the ball. In this position, you can turn your forearm in every possible way no matter where it is, but when you use an Eastern grip, suddenly, you’re caught until your arm is sufficiently extended. Just test it with a laid back position of your hand and you’ll see you cannot twist your forearm like you want with an Eastern grip.

    What is special about Federer is that he extends his arm tremendously far in front, so far, that he’s got some freedom to work with by the moment he gets to hit the ball. You’ll notice that, in his take back, he plays with the racket face a bit, as if he was trying to make it look like the forehand of a more extreme grip – he purposely close his racket face there.

    People have speculated about what made his straight arm extension possible, but it’s fairly simple of a thing; it’s so simple you’ll get it down within an hour if you work you way with it. In a double bent forehand, the relation between the arm and forearm (the angle of the elbow) is established in the forward acceleration – that’s way prior impact – and is kept through out a big part of the swing until it breaks down in the follow-through. The same happens with Federer, Nadal and Verdasco who use a straighter arm action: it gets set early. How? They supinate their forearm, or, in the words of everyday, they turn their palm down. From the moment the racket starts to drop, they start doing this and you’ll notice if you try that you have no choice but to let it extend. OMG! I revealed Federer’s trick! It won’t make you hit Fed’s forehand; you’ll be hitting your forehand, but you still learnt why and how Federer ends up doing this.

    But, the simplest thing of all is to use a semi-western grip instead of an eastern grip; it’ll take you a couple hundreds shots to get it down, but it’s more appropriate than the Eastern one to answer heavy top spin shots. Federer keeps using it and it has its advantages, however, you’ll find it harder to reprogram your whole swing than just changing your grip and adjusting your swing path.

  • Federer

    You put top spin on it. I play with a WWFH over 90% of the time; the other 10% are reversed forehands. People tell you you’ll need a traditional forehand to hit winners, but I think I hit sufficiently hard with a WW motion – we’re speaking of 85-90mph winners regularly… they’ll also argue you can get depth with it – that’s probably why my forehands kicks the back fence off the first bounce, 5 to 6 feet high.

    If you want to hit with a more direct trajectory, you do what pros do: you get your swing path to be more linear. So long as you lay your wrist back properly and have an upward rising action prior impact, you’ll pronate the same way after hitting the ball, even if it’s more direct than usual. The only exception is the Eastern grip where you need some extension to still pull off a wiper action, but I exposed my theory higher – it yet needs to be proved, but I’m not seeing a professional ATP player hitting an Eastern grip tomorrow! Federer will, but he’s got an extended arm which is not what I want to verify.

    An other thing you might want to do on high balls and those shots you play inside the court: if you can trace a safe angle from your contact point to your target, you’d probably like to hit the ball downward… Uou give it a slight downward angle instead of a rising or straight line path.

  • Federer

    Yes, this is a pronation which occurs after impact.

    For your next question, it’s hard to answer as my forehand is built out of habit like the forehand of any good player: it’s repeated once it’s fluent and natural. If I had to take a guess, I’d tell you the tension in my forearm muscles due to the manner in which I rise toward the tennis ball compels my forearm to pronate afterward. My wrist, if you had a picture, is “laid back” and it’s also a slight downward angle… but again, I use a straight arm action and have a semi-western grip which is pretty extreme, so to say – it’s just on the verge of being a full western, really, it’s peculiar.

    Start by having your arm do the swing path slowly; shadow the motion a bit and work it by fixing little details one at a time until you feel it’s fluent. Then pick up balls and try it. I can confirm you it’s not conscious, but is it the habit of throwing the motion or the right movement which triggers it or is it a combination of both? I mean, it could pretty well be a subconscious movement, implemented by practise or just a bodily reaction to the torque generated by the motion…

  • Federer

    From what I can tell, evidences tend to show that the WWFH provides a greater energy transfer potential. For all that is certain, you’ll get one reward psychologically: due to the extra spin, you’ll be confident to give it all. If you look at it physically, it’s a shot that enables you to go after acceleration, both linearly and vertically – I’d like to measure it – but I’d guess you get this acceleration over a greater distance and time…

    In simple term, I’d say you can get as much if not more pace while implementing considerably more top spin and, again, facts tend to prove me right. Yandell studied this kind of concept – top spin production – and not surprisingly found that players produce now more spin than before. Sampras, around 2000-2001, was hitting solid forehands – we’ll agree he could get some 90-95mph forehands, right? But his average rally ball got about 1800rpm on it. Since then, pros aren’t really going for more in pace – same average 68 to 75mph on rally balls – however, they got much more top spin: Federer strikes nearly 2700rpm on an average basis and, Nadal, 3000 rpm (2006).

    Equipment evolved, but again, the American competed against Federer in exhibition matches and we can’t argue he was hitting more top spin than he used to… if the equipment allows more energy transfer, I can’t disagree; but the traditional forehand seems to not use this to the advantage of the player.

    It’s harder to pull off, long to practise, but it’s what is played on the pro tour nowadays more than 90% of the time. You do waste at trying it? In the worst case scenario, you’ll have at least an equally good forehand to play by.

  • Federer

    From what I can tell, evidences tend to show that the WWFH provides a greater energy transfer potential. For all that is certain, you’ll get one reward psychologically: due to the extra spin, you’ll be confident to give it all. If you look at it physically, it’s a shot that enables you to go after acceleration, both linearly and vertically – I’d like to measure it – but I’d guess you get this acceleration over a greater distance and time…

    In simple term, I’d say you can get as much if not more pace while implementing considerably more top spin and, again, facts tend to prove me right. Yandell studied this kind of concept – top spin production – and not surprisingly found that players produce now more spin than before. Sampras, around 2000-2001, was hitting solid forehands – we’ll agree he could get some 90-95mph forehands, right? But his average rally ball got about 1800rpm on it. Since then, pros aren’t really going for more in pace – same average 68 to 75mph on rally balls – however, they got much more top spin: Federer strikes nearly 2700rpm on an average basis and, Nadal, 3000 rpm (2006).

    Equipment evolved, but again, the American competed against Federer in exhibition matches and we can’t argue he was hitting more top spin than he used to… if the equipment allows more energy transfer, I can’t disagree; but the traditional forehand seems to not use this to the advantage of the player.

    It’s harder to pull off, long to practise, but it’s what is played on the pro tour nowadays more than 90% of the time. You do waste at trying it? In the worst case scenario, you’ll have at least an equally good forehand to play by.

  • Federer

    Doesn’t matter… but you have to be conscious that each grip will compel a certain series of actions to take place for them to allow you to strike the ball with a square angle to the ground. The more extreme the grip, the more vertical the natural plane.

  • Federer

    Doesn’t matter… but you have to be conscious that each grip will compel a certain series of actions to take place for them to allow you to strike the ball with a square angle to the ground. The more extreme the grip, the more vertical the natural plane.

  • Federer

    Pro players are typically lengthening the same motion or using a reversed forehand… A flat drive can be struck very efficiently with a WWFH; it’ll dip a little quicker, but if you can adjust your aiming, it will land at the same place with as much if not more speed.

    The WWFH is not just this big loopy and round motion you see in video examples; if you see a player pronating his forearm in the follow-through, it means that the racket has not ended on edge: he’s just playing a linear version of the motion. What makes the whole motion is the manner in which you come up onto the ball… For the sake of your game, learn something from Federer. In tennis, you do 3 things:
    -You move toward the ball;
    -You set up the movement;
    -You initiate the swing and let everything go where it has to go.

    You may end up a bit higher, a bit lower… it’s not really important. Just let it rip.

  • Federer

    Pro players are typically lengthening the same motion or using a reversed forehand… A flat drive can be struck very efficiently with a WWFH; it’ll dip a little quicker, but if you can adjust your aiming, it will land at the same place with as much if not more speed.

    The WWFH is not just this big loopy and round motion you see in video examples; if you see a player pronating his forearm in the follow-through, it means that the racket has not ended on edge: he’s just playing a linear version of the motion. What makes the whole motion is the manner in which you come up onto the ball… For the sake of your game, learn something from Federer. In tennis, you do 3 things:
    -You move toward the ball;
    -You set up the movement;
    -You initiate the swing and let everything go where it has to go.

    You may end up a bit higher, a bit lower… it’s not really important. Just let it rip.

  • Federer

    Depends on your intention. Sometimes, I take more than a whole foot of drag; other times, I leave few inches. What makes the whole motion takes place as you come up onto the ball; if you do it properly, you’ll end up pronating your forearm later on. It’s really as dumb as changing the way you bring your racket to the ball.

  • Federer

    Depends on your intention. Sometimes, I take more than a whole foot of drag; other times, I leave few inches. What makes the whole motion takes place as you come up onto the ball; if you do it properly, you’ll end up pronating your forearm later on. It’s really as dumb as changing the way you bring your racket to the ball.

  • Federer

    Give us more details… what do you mean by “turning” your wrist? Do you mean your racket head is no longer square to the ground or is it about the manner you lay it back?

    State your grip, the motion you’re using and if you bend or not your elbow; then, explain us what’s this whole “wrist turning” thing. I’ll answer your reply if you bother writing.

  • Federer

    Give us more details… what do you mean by “turning” your wrist? Do you mean your racket head is no longer square to the ground or is it about the manner you lay it back?

    State your grip, the motion you’re using and if you bend or not your elbow; then, explain us what’s this whole “wrist turning” thing. I’ll answer your reply if you bother writing.

  • Federer

    Just to make sure everyone get it, I’m theorizing… Of course, I’m not shooting in the dark; I got reasons to pretend certain things, but I do not possess enough data to confirm their veracity. You may put in doubt – and I encourage you to – what I say and prove me wrong if you can; if you try, bother putting as much effort as I did and understand what I write before criticizing it.

    Thanks in advance; good tennis.

    P.S.: Sorry Will, I can’t leave people without answers; you skipped this part with all your work – good work, must I add – and I’ve tried to be as sound as possible to help them out. I’m not a physicist, bio-mechanical engineer or a biologist, but I do what I can as I said.

  • Federer

    Just to make sure everyone get it, I’m theorizing… Of course, I’m not shooting in the dark; I got reasons to pretend certain things, but I do not possess enough data to confirm their veracity. You may put in doubt – and I encourage you to – what I say and prove me wrong if you can; if you try, bother putting as much effort as I did and understand what I write before criticizing it.

    Thanks in advance; good tennis.

    P.S.: Sorry Will, I can’t leave people without answers; you skipped this part with all your work – good work, must I add – and I’ve tried to be as sound as possible to help them out. I’m not a physicist, bio-mechanical engineer or a biologist, but I do what I can as I said.

  • Don

    Great breakdown!

  • johnny

    hey will i was wondering what am i doin wrong if i cant get the height from doin the ww forehand

  • Mike calo

    nice video. that really helped

  • Rene

    These technics help us develop our tenis game

  • Dirk

    gonna try it today. i really need consistency

  • Playing_99

    Hi,

    Great videos! I’m studying your forehand lessons for myself and also because I am coaching junior high and junior varsity boys on a high school team. Many of them are imitating the windshield wiper forehand but they can’t do a classic forehand consistently yet. They often end up on their heels and hit into the net or hit a ball with no control and little power. I don’t want to discourage their awesome and creative imitating efforts because it’s really great and they have high energy and enthusiasm. What would be some drills or techniques I could use with 12 to 16 year olds to preserve their spirit and help improve their consistency.

    Thanks, Sue

  • Duke

    hey will
    for the windshield wiper forehand, do you make contact with the ball further in front of you than with the standard forehand? 

  • James

    I tried it at home and I could not hit it up it would go straight down. What will help me

  • Anoop

    pls include angle and position of the contact too in your description that may help !