The second installment of FYB’s strategy quiz deals with Roger Federer’s inside-out forehand. Roger is always looking to hit an inside-out forehand during a backhand to backhand exchange with his opponent. There’s something about Federer’s backhand shot selection that gives him many opportunities to hit an inside-out forehand — do you know the answer?
For further reading, check out our video on Roger Federer’s forehand grip.
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I don’t have much to say…
WWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW !!! I hadn’t think about it !!! FYB, you are incredible …
Tks.
I agree. The slice to a righty’s backhand will cause them to put in a slightly less forceful, higher spinning shot. Most peoples backhand has less spin. Plus federer knows how to use the angled slice to open up the court. The topspin is mixed in so it isn’t so predictable. Federer’s topspin slice isn’t that great. That’s what I think anyway. And that’s why Nadal’s game messes Fed up. Because the lower slice makes nadal crank more spin.
hi Will (again) does that slice/topspin stradegy work on any court? grass(ofcourse), clay, hard and carpet?
Alternating between the slice and topspin backhand changes both tempo and bounce thereby producing more opportunities for a weak reply which allows Fed the time to pounce on the forehand and take charge of the point.
Think I’m going to agree with Michael Stewart above. Alternating between top spin and slice changes bounce but most importantly changes the pace of the ball and disrupts the rhythm of his opponent so that he himself controls the rhythm and when to pull the trigger (the forehand).
great video. i was wondering would a drop shot down the line be a good way to counter this? like during fed’s alternation of shots suprise him with a slice backhand drop shot DTL preferably off his slice backhand which will naturally add spin from his shot making it tricky and harder to reach? tough shot to pull off i know, but is that strategy any good??
Thanks.
incredible brain storming. Keep it up
Hello,
well I think by alternating slice backhand and topspin backhand, Roger changes rythmn and make his opponent hit a slower/safer backhand that let him time enough to run around his backhand to finally hit his inside-out forehand…Is that your thinking?
Actually I hadn’t thought about that, but your explanations gave me this idea.
JF
I think the slice and top spin shot just make the his opponent confused. As we know, it is different to return a slice or a top spin shot, if he mixs it together, the opponent gets confused and return some low quality shots, then Fed has time to switch to his forehand and hit to the place whatever he wants.
cant wait till the next quiz!! Thanks Will
playing the slice cross court to his opponents backhand, federer can then reasonable assume that he will get a return cross court hit with not much pace because its difficult to generate pace off a slice. This will allow federer to run around his backhand to hit a forehand. Also, mixing in topspin shots with slice shots will generally throw off an opponents rhythm and make it difficult to hit agressive shots. This would also allow federer to run around the backhand.
info is great. Just wish we didn’t have to see the back of this kid’s head all the day. look at the camera, do not turn your back. he is young, he will get better.
Some really good comments but many of us have to read through your definitions. My assumption is, by definition, an incoming ball does not cross a player’s body. The inside out shot is a shot which goes back from where is came. Roger scoots around his backhand to hit a forehand cross court to a RH player’s backhand is an indie out shot.
When Roger scoots around his backhand creating the inside shot, and hits a ball parallel with the singles’ and centre lines, that would be considered an inside straight ball. When Roger changes the direction of the incoming ball and hits a ball to the open court forehand side of the RH player that would be considered an inside change of direction shot or indie change. And going along with you, you can add a little more top and create a greater angle as a type of inside out shot.
Really enjoyed your comments. I remain a little stuck on the definitions. Plz correct me if wrong. I thought an inside ball was an incoming ball which did not cross the player’s body. Roger scoots around his backhand to create an inside situation. He hits the ball back from where it came which is to the RH players backhand which is an inside out shot. If Roger had his the ball parallel with the singles’ and centre lines that would be an inside straight ball. If Roger hit the ball to the open forehand side of the right handed player, that would be an inside change-of-direction or inside change shot.
Hey Walter. The down the line forehand Federer hits when he runs around his backhand is an inside-in forehand. I forgot to make this point in the video but I put in a text overlay to clarify it. When Federer sends the ball back crosscourt, that’s an inside-out forehand.
I’m agree with Michael Stewart !
Nice quiz !
Keep going !
Thanks Will.
federer is fantastic ,and this year ,he deserve to win ,
in every match make some incredible shots,
I have been a high school tennis coach for the past 17 years and will be celebrating birthday # 64 this summer. Our teams have been quite successful during this time and our 95 match winning streak just ended. I have been so impressed by your site and presentation of various tennis concepts. You really do a great job and it is true that you can teach an old dog new tricks ! One question please…….when Federer elects to go down the line and not hit and inside/out forehand cross court during a point, where should the opponent try to hit his next shot during this pattern…..high and deep, crosscourt ?? Thanks.
Will, could you send me an e-mail responding to the question in my comment? Thanks.
Well you answered this question already in one of your earlier videos (not a strategy quiz one). When Federer slices from his backhand side (typically when he’s on the ad side) most players will just slice back to where Federer hit his backhand slice. And this opens up the Federer inside-out forehand. Occasionally, you may get a player like Nadal or Nadal himself that hits the slice somewhere else, but typically the backhand slice is hard to make a move on or do anything with.
Hi Will. Great job !
By mixing sliced BH and topspin BH, Federer gains several things :
1. He keeps the other player gambling if he will have to play a sliced or topspin ball, wondering if he can position himself for an I/O FH first or not. The I/O FH becomes more risky on a sliced BH : the ball bounces lower, which is tough especially for players with todays grips.
2. On a sliced BH, the response is somewhat weaker, allowing Fed to prepare for the I/O FH. More, this is a tougher shot for “pure” two handers
3. On a sliced BH, Fed prevents for down the line FH and too angled I/O FH (low bounce), keeping a ball reasonably easy for him.
4. He angles more his topspin BH, opening the court for the next shot.
I agree,
By alternating topspin with slice backhands, Federer changes the pace of the ball and because he is the first mover (his one handed backhand allows him to disguise the shot he will be playing) he can anticipate. If you have to come in to the court and play a ball that hardly bounced you probably will slice the ball back, centrality if you play a double handed backhand. So it’s an good strategy against hard hitting baseline players.
It’s harder for Roger to use this tactic against Nadal because he’s left handed and because it’s very difficult to hit a good slice backhand at shoulder hight (Nadal’s topspin forehand).
Basically the “inside out shot ” or “inside in shot ” it as you say a more powerful shot than the backhand. It can be a slice or a topspin depending whether he wants to keep the ball low or kick up. It is important that the shot be of such quality to put the opponent in a defensive position since “running around the backhand” opens up alot of the court and this makes him vulnerable for a down the line shot to the opposite side of the court or a return shot directly at the body. By varing the depth and the angle of the shot can keep his opponent guessing!!
Good one, because by making the opponent having to adjust the depth of their shots he forces a depth error on their return, so Fed can run around and also step into his own shot to make it more forcing. He must have read books about naval battles and how gunners have to continually adjust range as they approach the enemy ship!
The other reasons I thought were 1) because if his opponent starts playing back slice to counteract Fed’s slice, that may also take a player that plays mostly flat/topspin (say, someone who plays DHBH) out of their comfort zone which may produce a return which is looser lengthwise; and 2) an opponent’s sliced backhand will be a slower shot that will give Fed more time to run around.
the slice shot on the back of his opponent makes the opponent just able to return the ball, not strong enough, giving Fed the time to make the inside out forehand.
Do you realize that you are depicting Federer as a lefty, like yourself? you need to turn the racquet the other way to show an inside out. Otherwise, great video!
Hey Julia. Viewers have been confused by these icons so from now on I will clarify how they work in each video. The circle represents the player’s body and the stick coming out of it represents the racket. Thus, everything was oriented properly in the video. Hope that makes sense.
Great videos! Keep them coming! Every time you add new content, I’m amazed by the quality.
second video please
Thanks
just great!
nice explanation!
the fact that federer varies his shots with both slice and topspin pushes his opponent back behind the baseline or either further into the court. this naturally creates bigger angles for the suisse as opposesed to if the opponent was on the baseline normally.
federer hits slice backhand because the ball travels slower in the air after the slice and it gives enough time to federer to move across the ball when it is returned by his opponent and hit inside out forehand. he hits topspin backhand to mix it up so that his game doesn’t become predictable.
to draw them in with the slice and push them back with top spin.
This is good
just keep going
I think it’s to keep his opponent off balance. Federer loves to do this because it keeps his opponent off balance and this helps him set up for a wicked forehand.
test
test, sorry
hi,
at first i love your homepage.Im from Germany and, although i play tennis for around 10 years or even longer, i learned many things i didn’t know.
But i cannot open other videos, because i always get this kind of error:
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Error
could not find valid list with the name Website+Subscribers ”
how can i fix it?
I keep getting this message whenever I try to view the answer to the quiz.
“System Error Encountered!
Error
could not find valid list with the name Website+Subscribers”
Does anyone know how to fix this?
We’re on this problem — hope to have it resolved soon.
This is very useful for me ,and I like Your explonation and the form You done it
i t was very useful and i am going to watch all your videos
R there more of these quizzes on your site?
could u make a specific link for the tackticks?
Also Federer knows that if he employs a topspin/slice strategy it gives him more room to move to the net and close the point out. Moving his opponent around the court and then using a deep slice backhand, Fed keeps his opponent far back in the court and hitting a defensive, high-bouncing ‘safety’ shot off which Federer can 9 times out of 10 (it it’s only a standard safety shot) either hit a winner or a solid approach shot down the line and then come in to net and finish the point off. Federer is a master of constructing points and this is one of the point building tactics he uses, especially against taller, less agile players like Robin Soderling who have to bend down and scoop his slice back, leaving themselves largely out of position and giving Fed much more court to hit to.
Thanks for that FYB.
I think another point to make is that because Federer is able to manoeuver the ball not only side to side but up and down, he is then able to hit the ball ‘behind’ his opponent, making his opponent struggle to hit the returning shot on his back foot. Opponent is then off-balance, which means that his opponent will return a mediocre shot and Federer blasts it off onto the sides.
excellent ovservation
You can not imagine how much has helped me your videos,thank you very much from Spain!.Excelent work!.I have learn a lot from your videos.Thank you my friend FYB!God bless you.
to beat his weak backhand
He will get better oppertunity to step in the court. More time.
his back hand is not weak it as farst as his forehand
To upset a player's rhythm, and force an easy ball to put away with the inside out forehand, off of the opponents response to the slice or topspin backhand
Good discussion. I think the change in the spin and height of the ball add to the variety and present still more opportunities for a short or weak return that Fed can run around for his inside out forehand.
federer has a beautiful slice backhand which bounces very low . when he hits a topspin backhand there is a great difference in the height of the bounce . varying the height of the bounce frequently confuses his opponent as when the ball bounces low he will have to bend his knees more to pick the ball up and when it bounces high he dosent have to bend down much . the opponent will have to change his amount of knee bend for every shot . he will start getting tired to doing this in 4 to5 shots and will end up giving a weak return to federers backhand which he can convert to a forehand . this gives federer more chances of hitting an in side out forehand .
I think that you have pretty good knowledge of the game and you have written it as beautiful as Roger Federer's backhand or rather his complete style of play.
Vishwajeet
Its his footwork
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